tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post5786350332368750915..comments2024-01-21T03:20:50.351-07:00Comments on World War II in Pictures: The Most Important Date of World War IIUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post-66146754872563675972016-06-13T23:52:40.837-06:002016-06-13T23:52:40.837-06:00Conclusion : the bomb may have marked the end of t...Conclusion : the bomb may have marked the end of the war, but it did not have, and, unless ready to be <br /><br />dropped in mid-1943, would not have had a massive impact on the war itself. Although i will concede that had <br /><br />it been dropped in europe, more specifically London or Moscow, it could have radically changed the post-war <br /><br />world.<br /><br />As for the most important date of World War Two ...<br /><br />What happens if the japanese empire does not attack the united states ? <br />The japanese attack on pearl harbor December 7, 1941<br />All of a sudden, declaring war on germany less than 30 years after a bloody world war against that country, <br /><br />at a time when the public opinion of the U.S. was massively isolationnist ( think Lindbergh ) would not have <br /><br />been easy.<br /><br />And if we go with that narrative, we could also ask " What would have happened had general ishiwara not <br /><br />violated orders and staged a chinese attack to start the war in japan ? " <br />So how about instead, the mukden incident ? September 18, 1931<br />Ishiwara does not set a precedent to violate orders and does not start a war in china. The chinese communists <br /><br />and Chiang Kai-shek's nationalists aren't forced to unite and the japanese military, which doesn't have the <br /><br />figure of the great hero general who ( goes rogue and ) disobeys orders and starts a war. This in turn keeps <br /><br />China divided and, although ishiwara's inaction would not have resolved japan's political instability, it <br /><br />would not have aggravated it, and perhaps Ishiwara would not have had to put down the rebellion in the army <br /><br />which propelled Hideki Tojo to his position of immense power within the japanese empire. <br />And if japan doesn't start the war in China, what reason would Roosevelt have had to block profitable sales <br /><br />of strategic ressources to japan, with the memory of the 1929 crash fresh in the minds of the american people <br /><br />? Without : a japanese army bogged down in china and the U.S. openly hampering Japan's war effort by cutting <br /><br />off japan's ressources and sending american white men as volunteers ( flying tigers anyone ? ) to fight for <br /><br />the chinese against the japanese, why would japan even go to war against the U.S. ? Under what narrative ? <br /><br />They gained so much from the british colonies at a time when the americans really didn't like those redcoat <br /><br />imperialists, hell they even got vietnam ( french indochina ) for free just by being on hitler's side. <br />That it it for this specific hypothesis, if you haven't already, i respectfully suggest you read up ( or wat<br />ch ) on general ishiwara. There was a great short documentary on him made by paul jenkins in 2012, which <br /><br />included good insight from japanese historians, it is called : "General Ishiwara, the Man who Triggered the <br /><br />War" <br /><br />Finally keep in mind that it was the germans who first discovered that fabricating an atomic bomb was even <br /><br />possible at all in the first place ( in 1936 ) and made it public like a bunch of idiots . Imagine if one of <br /><br />the nazis had declared all scientific research to be top secret until approved to be publicly released or <br /><br />something.<br /><br />I'm sorry i went on a bit of a rant here in the last part, i guess i ended up saying that the most important <br /><br />date of the war is the day Ishiwara started the war in the first place. But i'm posting it anyway because i <br /><br />think it's important to remember that history cannot be "cut" into small pieces and analyzed in a vacuum. It <br /><br />should be viewed as a flow of continuous events which can be separated neither from their causes nor from <br /><br />their consequences.<br /><br />Marti18 4096 char, there's one last paragraph i want to post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post-6504069088220491132016-06-13T17:44:12.760-06:002016-06-13T17:44:12.760-06:00The Germans had a delivery system. The Me 264 was ...The Germans had a delivery system. The Me 264 was ready by 1943 and had a payload of 13,200 kg (29,101 lbs) in the internal bomb bay at 8,600 km (5,343 miles). There were other Luftwaffe bombers that could carry a Little-Boy sized bomb to England, too, such as the Ju 390. Germany had delivery systems in plenty of time, and they also could have put it on a U-boat.James Bjorkmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14749118745932210527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post-74794141142928998262016-06-13T17:11:57.402-06:002016-06-13T17:11:57.402-06:00Now, let's try to envision a situation wherein...Now, let's try to envision a situation wherein the germans build the atomic bomb first. <br /><br />Even if the germans had started working on the bomb in 1936, i cannot quite conceive a way for their project <br /><br />to really get going until at least after they've started conquering and pillaging other european countries. <br /><br />That means at least 1940 - 1941. Which in turn means that it would have been damn near impossible for them to <br /><br />have a working device until at least late-1943, also known as " after kursk ". I am not even including the <br /><br />possibility of, say, a norweigian commando, trained by the british, landing in norway and spending months <br /><br />living in extreme conditions just to sabotage a heavy water factory here.<br /><br />And then what could the germans do with it ? First they have to get it into a plane and that plane needs to <br /><br />be BIG enough to carry the heavy ass bomb, the germans did not have very many heavy bombers, they favored <br /><br />light and medium and did not quite have powerful enough engines in sufficient quantity anyways . Then they <br /><br />have to make sure the plane doesn't get shot down before dropping its payload. So night bombing then ? <br />And what do you bomb ? An army ? Hiroshima was one of the most densely populated cities of the time, and the <br /><br />highest estimates are at around 200 000 death ( the most common i've seen says "approximately 70,000 died <br /><br />immediately from the explosion and another 70,000 died from radiation within five years." )The soviet had <br /><br />literal millions of combattants and they did not in fact sleep packed like sardines. 200 000 Dead soldiers <br /><br />barely makes a dent in the soviet armies. And if you think that "being 6 months away from dying from <br /><br />radiation poisoning" can get you honorably discharged in the red army in 1943 you are clueless. I guess you <br /><br />could do far more damage by dropping it in great britain but even there you would have to know what to bomb <br /><br />and where to find it. Good luck flying a recon mission with all the fighters stationed there plus radars and <br /><br />command and control capabilities. <br /><br />So you bomb a city then ? Which one ? I guess Moskau and London are good targets but although you might <br /><br />freeze the soviets for a while through logistics and chain of command problems, you would still only delay <br /><br />the inevitable as one of the communist party opportunists would just takeover, order the army forward, and <br /><br />execute anyone who complains. Those are the guys who used cows and P.O.W. to clear mine fields. As for the <br /><br />british, by that point they had built up a resilience from the blitz and churchill that just wasn't going to <br /><br />go away. Everyone was in too deep in 1943. <br /><br />I think there would have been a way for an atomic bomb to have a truly strategic impact for the axis and that <br /><br />is if it had been ready just before the battle of kursk. The concentration of soviet troops in that battle <br /><br />means that, if, the germans had had a bomb and dropped it there, they might have won that battle while <br /><br />sustaining small enough casualties to retain some form of small strategic initiative. But even then where do <br /><br />you go from there ? What do you do with that strategic initiative ? The odds are still stacked against the <br /><br />axis forces here and it would take both military and diplomatic geniuses to not lose the war outright and <br /><br />negociate a good enough deal with either side to make yourself seem valuable enough, scary enough, and above <br /><br />all, worth the trouble. If anything, germany dropping an atomic bomb in late 1943 to 1945 would have only <br /><br />increased the pressure on U.S. and british militaries to use everything at their disposal ( including gas ? <br /><br />Just a thought ) to win the war as quickly as possible. And keep in mind that even the US which had already <br /><br />invested massively in the manhattan project, and had been relatively unscathed from the war, still estimated <br /><br />they needed at least another 6 months to get another bomb after dropping theirs.<br /><br />Conclusion<br /><br />Marti18 4096 char this approval thing is obnoxiousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post-29548553605818474632016-06-12T19:16:40.585-06:002016-06-12T19:16:40.585-06:00Hello and thank you for your time
I disagree entir...Hello and thank you for your time<br />I disagree entirely with the premise of this entry ( that the 2nd of august 1939 is the most important date of the war ) and especially with your conclusion that "2 August 1939 is the most significant date of World War II"<br /><br /><br />Allow me to explain :<br /><br />While the value of the atomic bomb is undeniable, it only becomes a vital strategic tool if you have : a viable delivery system AND, in the case of the united states, a solid justification for using it.<br /><br />You once said that wars are won because of greater strategic reasons ( and not because you set your army north east instead of south east ) . I think this is one case where that is true. In that specific case, the two atomic bombs were dropped because the U.S. had complete control of the air. The U.S. had complete control of the air because japan and germany had little to no ressources to build, arm, and fly fighters, and, in 1944 - 1945, too few skilled pilots to fly them. Take away little boy, and replace it with 2 000 tons of conventional bombs instead, you'll get roughly the same result.<br /><br />So let us look at japan and the impact the atom bomb had on the will of the japanese. It's simple, it barely had any. Japan was ALREADY razed to the ground for the most part when the bombs fell, and the japanese high command initially thought it was just another firebombings that had razed just another japanese city, like hundreds before. <br /><br />I have to quote (sourced) wikipedia here :<br />Operation Meetinghouse air raid of 9–10 March 1945 was later estimated to be the single most destructive bombing raid in history. Incidentally, Hirohito's tour of the destroyed areas of Tokyo in March 1945 was the beginning of his personal involvement in the peace process, culminating in Japan's surrender six months later. The Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo on the night of 9 March 1945 was the single deadliest air raid of World War II, greater than Dresden, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki as single events<br /><br />I mean no disrespect to all the victims of the bomb here, i just want to point out that objectively, from a strictly military point of view, the two atomic bombs that hit japan in 1945 were little different from the previous massive bombing operations of that same and the previous year ( it is touched very briefly in "The Fog of War Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara 2003" ). <br />The real reason why the japanese ended up surrendering was a combination of the soviet union going to war against them and the emperor finally finding his nuts and saying "hey maybe we should stop this whole war thing". <br /><br />Moreover you have to remember that the average nuke today is a multiple warhead device wherein each warhead is maybe twenty or thirty times hiroshima's worth of destruction, and that after dropping these two bombs the U.S. would have had to wait another 6 months at least to be able to get a third bomb, and at that point the germans had been producing jet fighters for 2 years.<br /><br /><br /><br />Now, let's try to envision a situation wherein the germans build the atomic bomb first. <br /><br />Marti18 4096 char, will continue post belowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-50651698518155984.post-5515231773425250272016-06-08T02:43:53.997-06:002016-06-08T02:43:53.997-06:00niceniceAnnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05734220215058808818noreply@blogger.com